I just had to write a paper about this for grad school. It made me revisit an old post wrestling through my position on this that I wrote on my now defunct blogger. I came to the conclusion back then that I think personhood/ensoulment happens at implantation. That is what makes sense to me scientifically, especially because of questions of twinning and the rate of non-viable fertilizations before implantation. But… I feel like this is just my best guess based on current information, and how can I ask for policies and laws to be written because my best guess? And what if I’m wrong and my best guess actually results in termination of a soul, a life? I can’t run the risk either direction.
I want to advocate for treating the process as sacred, for leaning into protection of potential life where we are not certain. And I don’t want to make absolute statements where things are clearly not absolute and, as you beautifully write here, are incredibly personal and painful.
Thank you for sharing this story and the way it has impacted you. Thank you for your willingness to wrestle and ask hard questions. As a fellow survivor of an ectopic pregnancy (also infertile, also found out I was pregnant bleeding out on a hospital bed, also desperately wanted that baby), I've also come to realize that I want this to be a medical decision, not a political one. The experience was harrowing enough without the fear of legal repercussions or worry about what care my doctor can actually provide. And the dismissal of "but you're the exception" only reinforces how little most people know about how horribly it hurts to make that decision.
“I realize what is most valuable to me in a politician is someone who supports my right to have a personal conviction and not someone who legislates my freedom to have my own conviction. And therefore, I must concede that I support the right for everyone else to have their own convictions and the freedom to choose them.”
I grew up in a conservative Christian home and church community that told me pro-life was what was ‘right.’ But I also took a reproductive rights course while studying social Justice at a public college. Reading stories and learning more, I experienced an empathy and tension on the topic of abortion that I had always hid from. Thank you for the bravery to share your experience and current standpoint, even knowing some may be upset with it. Because there are those of us who are praising God for an article that helps put into words what we feel and don’t always feel steady enough on our feet to express.
Thank you Lore for sharing such an intimate part of your life. I care. I’ve always thought black and white but as I’ve aged I’ve learned that things/life isn’t that simple. I’ve had a miscarriage and yes I felt the emptiness, the loss and being in the emergency room, waiting. I have grandchildren that weren’t able to live. It’s so hard in every way. Thank you for saying what you have learned in such understandable ways. It is not a black and white issue. I hope you don’t mind if I share your story and how you arrived at your decision. 🥰
I'm so so sorry you had to go through this. I can feel your love for Judah, and for every other person who has to make gut-wrenching decisions as I read your words. Thank you for speaking about hard things.
Thank you Lore. You are the only other woman I know who has journeyed through ectopic pregnancy. I’m grateful for your transparency and words. It’s is a uniquely destabilizing position as a pro-life believer. It was shocking to discover the nuance in what had been portrayed as a black and white issue.
I'm so sorry, Autumn. The experience is awful. And *very* destabilizing. Multiple miscarriages and bouts of infertility did not prepare me for the whiplash I experienced around my pro-life views in that experience.
I am participating in a Wave of Light remembrance service this month and I will remember your Judah there, along with so many other beloved ones.
I have been reading your blog for many years, and I have always appreciated your thoughtful perspectives. Your winnowing years hit you just after mine hit me and I felt a kindredness there. Mine included two very rare, late missed miscarriages leading to hospital treatment. I wouldn’t choose to say that I was given abortion meds, though, because they are also miscarriage meds that helped me deliver my dead babies. I wouldn’t say that I was given an abortion any more than a woman who had a retained placenta after a live birth would say that her D&C was an abortion. I don’t make these distinctions out of moral superiority but because of the confusion that is being caused by this phrasing. No one is trying to outlaw ectopic and miscarriage care. I wouldn’t choose to use the language of those who oppose the value that I know belongs to those lives, when I have options of other commonly-understood and commonly-used language.
You are right that we need more nuanced discussions about this and more compassion for the desperation that drives women to elective abortion, but nuance is different from confusion. The intent of ending a pregnancy does matter—it matters the most. Whether we “let” an unviable baby die in the womb, or *cause* him or her to die, matters hugely. Your footnote says that the methodology of ending an ectopic pregnancy is similar to elective abortion, but it’s a very different surgery and/or very different medications. If an ectopic is treated like an elective abortion, the mother very likely might die. You know all of this, but your readers may not.
These are deep and tender topics for all of us. I have revisited by beliefs on abortion and the beginning of life countless times, because frankly they’re really inconvenient and idolatry on both sides of the aisle has destroyed any chance of voting with a consistent life ethic. I will not judge anyone for voting for what they believe to be the lesser of two evils. But compassion and confusion are not the same thing. I don’t know what the legislative solution is, but I do know that normalized abortion leads to pressure for abortion, ‘termination for medical reasons’ leads to increased dehumanization of disabled people, and the movement for “choice” tips the cultural scales strongly against protection of those lives. I wish it weren’t so.
Hi Martha, First, I just want to say I'm so sorry about your losses. It must have been so painful to deliver your babies. I grieve for you. Thank you for sharing that with me and the readers here. We don't hold that lightly.
I agree, we need more nuance than confusion. It sounds like you have a lot of clarity about where you are. I hope that my piece here is offering clarity to those who may not know where they are (I've already heard from many that it is). I also agree, "Whether we “let” an unviable baby die in the womb, or *cause* him or her to die, matters hugely."
We must consider though, what happens someone like me who was still pregnant, my hormone levels still rising, meaning the baby was still alive when they began surgery? I understand that's a sticky thing to navigate, and this is why I was trying to communicate how complex these things are. Just as I can't imagine a doctor delivering a baby who died in my womb, I don't know if someone who hasn't had to make the choice to, essentially, end the life of a non-viable baby in utero can understand how painful that is. I have miscarried, many times, and I can tell you without a doubt that all those miscarriages, as painful as they were, as grievous as they were, paled in comparison to the *choice* I had to make to go under the scalpel, to end the life of a child. It's just not the same. Both grievous situations, but not the same. My pregnancy was terminated (the medical terminology, not mine). It would have been terminated one way or another, by natural causes or not, but in the end, it was terminated by a surgeon's scalpel and my choice to go under it.
It is also not always a different medication. If my tube wasn't already near to bursting, they would have given me the same medication they would give another for an abortion. Again, situations are different. People's bodies are different. I shared my story and didn't make it universal.
Finally, I don't think it matters much which way the surgeon's tool's enter a woman's body (laparoscopically or vaginally), the point is, there was a heartbeat and then there was not. And if someone protests that I didn't have a choice, then I would ask them to consider that for many women, they also don't feel they have a choice. Just because I disagree, doesn't mean I can't empathize with them in their sense of powerlessness.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience on such a sensitive issue. I truly appreciate the individual human story on what is often talked about in generalities. You have given me food for thought (which, I sense was part of your goal). Some of your information about the historical story of Christians and abortion reminded me of the conversation and video/written content from the Holy Post Podcast in the past few years.
Yes! they've been helpful to me too. If you're wondering more about the history, Marvin Olasky's book that I link to in the footnotes gave a very in depth look at this.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this utterly complex issue. Like you, I was raised with the Republican = godly formula. My own mother was pressured to abort me, and she held it over my head my whole childhood that she didn't (godly? hmmm...) And now as an adult, having been a foster parent for 12 years, I've seen the other side of things. Of babies kept and loved, yet mothers not having support from anyone but the state (and only after they've gotten in trouble). Where are all millions of Christians who partied at the turn of Roe v. Wade? Why aren't they out there finding actual women who need help right now, keeping their children? It was watching the hipocrisy of my fellow Christians and feeling the dissonance that changed my mind on this topic.
So glad to hear this perspective in the sea of impassioned voices. So many things you’ve touched on I’ve never had to experience, so I’ll avoid inserting myself into a conversation with other voices more qualified than mine already speaking. I’m just grateful for your voice and courage to share this personally, and with such clarity, on a subject with so many strong opinions.
Praying you are able to rise above the comments you’re shielding from our eyes.
Thank you for sharing this. You put into words so well what I’ve grown to believe about this subject (I grew up believing all the things you described about yourself). Story. It is what changes minds and shifts paradigms and ushers us into the grayish space of compassion and empathy. Thanks for bringing people into yours - it really matters 🩷
My story definitely nudged me out of black and white thinking, but really what changed my mind was reading so much of the history. And really, I haven't changed my mind about when I believe life begins at all (although I DO understand and empathize with a lot of the different perspectives on when it begins), I just changed my mind on how to vote.
I just had to write a paper about this for grad school. It made me revisit an old post wrestling through my position on this that I wrote on my now defunct blogger. I came to the conclusion back then that I think personhood/ensoulment happens at implantation. That is what makes sense to me scientifically, especially because of questions of twinning and the rate of non-viable fertilizations before implantation. But… I feel like this is just my best guess based on current information, and how can I ask for policies and laws to be written because my best guess? And what if I’m wrong and my best guess actually results in termination of a soul, a life? I can’t run the risk either direction.
I want to advocate for treating the process as sacred, for leaning into protection of potential life where we are not certain. And I don’t want to make absolute statements where things are clearly not absolute and, as you beautifully write here, are incredibly personal and painful.
Thank you for sharing this story and the way it has impacted you. Thank you for your willingness to wrestle and ask hard questions. As a fellow survivor of an ectopic pregnancy (also infertile, also found out I was pregnant bleeding out on a hospital bed, also desperately wanted that baby), I've also come to realize that I want this to be a medical decision, not a political one. The experience was harrowing enough without the fear of legal repercussions or worry about what care my doctor can actually provide. And the dismissal of "but you're the exception" only reinforces how little most people know about how horribly it hurts to make that decision.
I cried as I read this:
“I realize what is most valuable to me in a politician is someone who supports my right to have a personal conviction and not someone who legislates my freedom to have my own conviction. And therefore, I must concede that I support the right for everyone else to have their own convictions and the freedom to choose them.”
I grew up in a conservative Christian home and church community that told me pro-life was what was ‘right.’ But I also took a reproductive rights course while studying social Justice at a public college. Reading stories and learning more, I experienced an empathy and tension on the topic of abortion that I had always hid from. Thank you for the bravery to share your experience and current standpoint, even knowing some may be upset with it. Because there are those of us who are praising God for an article that helps put into words what we feel and don’t always feel steady enough on our feet to express.
So beautifully written and stated…if you haven’t been in the position of making or considering this decision you can’t possibly know…
Thank you Lore for sharing such an intimate part of your life. I care. I’ve always thought black and white but as I’ve aged I’ve learned that things/life isn’t that simple. I’ve had a miscarriage and yes I felt the emptiness, the loss and being in the emergency room, waiting. I have grandchildren that weren’t able to live. It’s so hard in every way. Thank you for saying what you have learned in such understandable ways. It is not a black and white issue. I hope you don’t mind if I share your story and how you arrived at your decision. 🥰
💗💗💗
Thank you Lore for, once again, choosing to be vulnerable, and for laying bare your experiences with life and the loss of it. Praying for you always.
I'm so so sorry you had to go through this. I can feel your love for Judah, and for every other person who has to make gut-wrenching decisions as I read your words. Thank you for speaking about hard things.
Thank you Lore. You are the only other woman I know who has journeyed through ectopic pregnancy. I’m grateful for your transparency and words. It’s is a uniquely destabilizing position as a pro-life believer. It was shocking to discover the nuance in what had been portrayed as a black and white issue.
I'm so sorry, Autumn. The experience is awful. And *very* destabilizing. Multiple miscarriages and bouts of infertility did not prepare me for the whiplash I experienced around my pro-life views in that experience.
Thank you for your vulnerability and thoughtfulness in sharing this painful story.
Dear Lore, bless you. Thank you for standing up to speak your experience and shed much-needed light.
I am participating in a Wave of Light remembrance service this month and I will remember your Judah there, along with so many other beloved ones.
I have been reading your blog for many years, and I have always appreciated your thoughtful perspectives. Your winnowing years hit you just after mine hit me and I felt a kindredness there. Mine included two very rare, late missed miscarriages leading to hospital treatment. I wouldn’t choose to say that I was given abortion meds, though, because they are also miscarriage meds that helped me deliver my dead babies. I wouldn’t say that I was given an abortion any more than a woman who had a retained placenta after a live birth would say that her D&C was an abortion. I don’t make these distinctions out of moral superiority but because of the confusion that is being caused by this phrasing. No one is trying to outlaw ectopic and miscarriage care. I wouldn’t choose to use the language of those who oppose the value that I know belongs to those lives, when I have options of other commonly-understood and commonly-used language.
You are right that we need more nuanced discussions about this and more compassion for the desperation that drives women to elective abortion, but nuance is different from confusion. The intent of ending a pregnancy does matter—it matters the most. Whether we “let” an unviable baby die in the womb, or *cause* him or her to die, matters hugely. Your footnote says that the methodology of ending an ectopic pregnancy is similar to elective abortion, but it’s a very different surgery and/or very different medications. If an ectopic is treated like an elective abortion, the mother very likely might die. You know all of this, but your readers may not.
These are deep and tender topics for all of us. I have revisited by beliefs on abortion and the beginning of life countless times, because frankly they’re really inconvenient and idolatry on both sides of the aisle has destroyed any chance of voting with a consistent life ethic. I will not judge anyone for voting for what they believe to be the lesser of two evils. But compassion and confusion are not the same thing. I don’t know what the legislative solution is, but I do know that normalized abortion leads to pressure for abortion, ‘termination for medical reasons’ leads to increased dehumanization of disabled people, and the movement for “choice” tips the cultural scales strongly against protection of those lives. I wish it weren’t so.
I appreciate your response, Lore, especially given how far out of step I am with the other comments here.
Hi Martha, First, I just want to say I'm so sorry about your losses. It must have been so painful to deliver your babies. I grieve for you. Thank you for sharing that with me and the readers here. We don't hold that lightly.
I agree, we need more nuance than confusion. It sounds like you have a lot of clarity about where you are. I hope that my piece here is offering clarity to those who may not know where they are (I've already heard from many that it is). I also agree, "Whether we “let” an unviable baby die in the womb, or *cause* him or her to die, matters hugely."
We must consider though, what happens someone like me who was still pregnant, my hormone levels still rising, meaning the baby was still alive when they began surgery? I understand that's a sticky thing to navigate, and this is why I was trying to communicate how complex these things are. Just as I can't imagine a doctor delivering a baby who died in my womb, I don't know if someone who hasn't had to make the choice to, essentially, end the life of a non-viable baby in utero can understand how painful that is. I have miscarried, many times, and I can tell you without a doubt that all those miscarriages, as painful as they were, as grievous as they were, paled in comparison to the *choice* I had to make to go under the scalpel, to end the life of a child. It's just not the same. Both grievous situations, but not the same. My pregnancy was terminated (the medical terminology, not mine). It would have been terminated one way or another, by natural causes or not, but in the end, it was terminated by a surgeon's scalpel and my choice to go under it.
It is also not always a different medication. If my tube wasn't already near to bursting, they would have given me the same medication they would give another for an abortion. Again, situations are different. People's bodies are different. I shared my story and didn't make it universal.
Finally, I don't think it matters much which way the surgeon's tool's enter a woman's body (laparoscopically or vaginally), the point is, there was a heartbeat and then there was not. And if someone protests that I didn't have a choice, then I would ask them to consider that for many women, they also don't feel they have a choice. Just because I disagree, doesn't mean I can't empathize with them in their sense of powerlessness.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience on such a sensitive issue. I truly appreciate the individual human story on what is often talked about in generalities. You have given me food for thought (which, I sense was part of your goal). Some of your information about the historical story of Christians and abortion reminded me of the conversation and video/written content from the Holy Post Podcast in the past few years.
Yes! they've been helpful to me too. If you're wondering more about the history, Marvin Olasky's book that I link to in the footnotes gave a very in depth look at this.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this utterly complex issue. Like you, I was raised with the Republican = godly formula. My own mother was pressured to abort me, and she held it over my head my whole childhood that she didn't (godly? hmmm...) And now as an adult, having been a foster parent for 12 years, I've seen the other side of things. Of babies kept and loved, yet mothers not having support from anyone but the state (and only after they've gotten in trouble). Where are all millions of Christians who partied at the turn of Roe v. Wade? Why aren't they out there finding actual women who need help right now, keeping their children? It was watching the hipocrisy of my fellow Christians and feeling the dissonance that changed my mind on this topic.
I am so sorry, Autumn. I cannot imagine the pain of hearing that and then the double pain of it being held over your head. Agonizing.
So glad to hear this perspective in the sea of impassioned voices. So many things you’ve touched on I’ve never had to experience, so I’ll avoid inserting myself into a conversation with other voices more qualified than mine already speaking. I’m just grateful for your voice and courage to share this personally, and with such clarity, on a subject with so many strong opinions.
Praying you are able to rise above the comments you’re shielding from our eyes.
Thank you, Matt.
Thank you for sharing this. You put into words so well what I’ve grown to believe about this subject (I grew up believing all the things you described about yourself). Story. It is what changes minds and shifts paradigms and ushers us into the grayish space of compassion and empathy. Thanks for bringing people into yours - it really matters 🩷
My story definitely nudged me out of black and white thinking, but really what changed my mind was reading so much of the history. And really, I haven't changed my mind about when I believe life begins at all (although I DO understand and empathize with a lot of the different perspectives on when it begins), I just changed my mind on how to vote.