Lore, I'm sorry for the heartbreak and distortion this experience caused you. Oddly enough, I've been working through an experience of betrayal myself, and it has also crumbled my ability to trust others. I'm especially distrustful of people online, but of course, this can happen with people we know in person as well. People are so complicated. Thank you for writing this.
Thank you for sharing this. Without getting too wordy about all my own various thoughts and feelings on friendships, I’m just going to say that the first thing I did when I was done reading was text a close friend I hadn’t texted since July 1st. Making, and maintaining, adult friendships is super hard! I can’t even imagine how the experience you had adds an extra complicated layer to that.
Another quote from Jia’s review: “And there it is again: the new revelation, the better life arriving once more… each woman, no matter what, is always stepping into her truth and power—she will also be stepping into her truth and power three years from now, when she promotes her next thing, and she will certainly be stepping into her truth and power five years after that. Every time, the person you’re seeing will really, finally be her.”
I’m reading Gilbert’s memoir because her writing is usually stunning and from a psychological POV, I’m intrigued. I read Glennon’s work for the writing, too. But I have problems with the packaging and marketing of stories like this, when 3 years later, they’ve found a new “truth” to follow and peddle to the readers. (I know that’s not the point of this Substack, but I really liked the review you linked and had thoughts!)
So much of my 30's and 40's have brought tremendous shifts in friendships. I feel much more fearful now about letting people in, and also just unwilling to go back to who I once was in friendships. It certainly feels like it makes it harder to make friends, or maintain committed mutual friendships, but it feels more honest. I always appreciate your willingness to talk about subjects where your thoughts aren't fully formed or coming from a place of absolute certainty, Lore. That too feels more honest.
Thank you! I enjoyed this entry as well! I’m an introvert by temperament. I’ve usually been slow to bring people into my close confidence. Yes, it’s a fear of getting hurt. It’s also a fear of not being emotionally and/or physically available to so many people.
It’s the mutual sense of caring, vulnerability, accountability, humor, etc that keeps me close to a small circle of friends.
I was listening to one of Kendra Adachi's latest podcasts and she talked about things she'd learned over the last years of being in the public eye. One of those things was that the people closest to her are not impressed by her. I thought that was such a great piece of insight. To have a husband, friends, family, who read what you write, but see the other side of it and won't pretend that you're better than you are because they know all the times you were mean while you worked out words in your head to post on the Internet -- it's a blessing. I am glad that there are people I see every day who read my newsletter (or sometimes don't) and don't really care about it.
I get antsy, I want to be good. And, recently, after a glorious summer off the Internet I've been all scroll-y again, ugh. .Which is to say, I am newly aware that all of this "being on the Internet" is just this tiny little sliver of my real life, and that sometimes when I'm most active here, I'm being the worst version of myself at home with the people who actually love me.
I take close notes of the writers and creators who maintain a level of personal integrity in their work -- who don't ever make me feel like they're selling. I want to be that sort of person, but like you say, there's always that fear that you're not going to measure up to what someone wants you to be. I wonder if this is especially true for those who've been through some form of narcissistic abuse, because the dynamic of perform for consumption is so hardwired into the system already...
I read once that friendship break ups can be as painful as a divorce for some situations and that’s stayed with me. I’m so sorry you went through this. I find very few of us make it to our 40s without being gutted by at least one friend. I’ve also read that it’s harder to make friends once you are in yours 40s but I’m trying to buck that trend by continuing to open myself up to new people. It’s a process! But I’m thankful for the friendships I’ve made even while still processing and healing from past terrible experiences. ❤️
I have been through friendship breakups, but the situation I mentioned I wouldn't consider one of them. I don't think I ever really considered us friends. They did though, but mostly because they'd created a whole relationship in their head that didn't exist. They felt like they knew me and I didn't know them really at all. There was no chance for a friendship to develop because it was so non-neutral to begin with. It just went downhill from there.
Friendship breakups, though, man, those are HARD. I've never been divorced but there has been one friendship breakup that has dominated my life over the past several years that is seriously one of the most painful experiences of my life.
Someone was just telling me that it's harder to make friends once you're in your forties and I'm wondering why that is. I would think that as we know ourselves better, making friends would be easier? Or maybe it's just that we know ourselves so well, we're cutting off the potential for new friendships before they can blossom? I don't know. I'd be interested in thinking more about that =)
That makes a lot of sense. And hard in its own unique way. I do not have the readership you have, but I still have met people who feel like they know me because they've read what I write. And that alone is a little tricky to navigate. But when you add OTHER unhealthy behavior in...well, that gets crazy quick.
Somewhat related, I was thinking about how one aspect I sort of liked in the business world is that people are more upfront about their networking behavior. Everyone in the room knows that they are trying to make connections for mutually beneficial reasons, and it's a business relationship in the end. In the ministry and in the writing world, I feel like that can be hidden underneath layers of friendship overtures that really have an agenda underneath the surface. That ends up making poor friendships and even poorer networks in the long term.
An article I read ages ago about the difficulties of making friends in your 40s mentioned how people earlier in life make friends in high school and college, but those sort of living life together connections end up dying away the older you get. I don't know if that's the only factor, though, maybe one of them. I really like your thought about how maybe in knowing ourselves so well, we are too quick to cut off new relationships. I can see truth there. On the personal side, I feel like I value my peace more the older I get, and the less I like drama, and people tend to bring drama, so that can create walls that I have to overcome.
Friendship has been thorny for me as well, though for different reasons. I really like how you described a true friend as one you can be exactly human-sized around! May we all aspire to be that friend!
really resonate with even just the title of this piece. friendship is worthy work, but hard. i have recently reflected on how clicking with someone and easily finding the connection that sends our souls soaring doesn’t mean that the relationship won’t still require effort on both our parts. and just because i experienced that click with someone at a certain season of my life doesn’t mean that the friendship will endure in the same way throughout subsequent seasons of life and becoming.
I’ve been there too. You’ve given us so much in this post, and I got sidetracked by reading the article in the New Yorker too, so I may be spending the rest of my day thinking about what you wrote, and watching the videos, and reading other articles. I do need to get on with my own work though, so in parting, I’ll just say, hang on to those good friends, the four you mentioned. You are so fortunate to have them, I’m hoping that they are the friends that define friendship and are there indefinitely despite the flaws each of you may have that make friendship prickly at times. It is so important to not let friendships consume you, I know that for sure, but have true friends is life giving.
Oops I meant to reply to this but I think I put it in the wrong place. Copying again here and sorry if redundant:
Gah Jia is good. I need to read that piece. I tend think of this social style as a two step con: first selling anxiety and then selling the “cure”. So so much of social media is now basically a version of inner/wellness QVC- telling people what to fear and then how we can pay them to fill that fear.
Well. I appreciate that isn’t your jam. I’m sorry this happened to you. I’ve been reading your work for QUITE awhile- since 2008 or 09? I think it must be normal, after we’ve learned and grown, to be critical of our past selves. But they were wise enough, too, to have gotten us to where we are. Your work has always been from a place of working towards a fundamental of Christ. Even if you weren’t feeling it or feel like you were living from that inner place of grace and freedom, I think you have been working towards/working it out in your work. FWIW.
I’m a cradle and current Episcopalian who has never much wrestled with many of the things you’ve been turning over the past decade. Did you know you’ve had such a “””liberal””” follower for so long- almost 20y!? (I know you’re curious about the way people who read your work identify. I like to think I’m unique- I’m not a liberal come lately to your voice :-) and my liberal bonafides are solid- My first vote for president in 2000 was for A* G****. I’ve been obsessed w and self declared kindred spirits w Madeleine L’Engle since age 11 and have always agreed w her that we are too obsessed w people’s gen:t@ls and not enough focused on our hearts. Which is to say I appreciate and find interesting your affirming series, and your conclusions echo something I agree with but never really struggled towards.)
But I’ve been at least small e evangelical friendly and have dabbled (campus crusade in college, relatively more conservative churches in my 20s tho never really crazy….) They’re just never “holy mystery” enough :-).
Actually… for a bunch of the more fundamental big E evangelical churches/preachers/styles, you might say they are “some of the most chaotic and emotionally lawless people” preaching about “having achieved inner piece” (h/t Jia). Anyway. Not much of a point here. Just a longtime reader perspective (and I do realize the irony of choosing this post about creepy followers to make my first and entirely too long comment )
Carolyn! Thank you for letting me know you've been here so long. That means a lot to me =) Thank you! You're not a creepy follower, I mean, you're not stalking me ;)
Adult friendships have been one of the toughest things to navigate. I had a friendship breakup last year that was truly devastating, and it has made it incredibly hard to trust new people. I really identified with what you said about the “click” of a just-right friendship. I’ve experienced it, so I know it happens, just not lately for me. Thanks for being vulnerable. There are always others who are in the same boat.
Lore, I'm sorry for the heartbreak and distortion this experience caused you. Oddly enough, I've been working through an experience of betrayal myself, and it has also crumbled my ability to trust others. I'm especially distrustful of people online, but of course, this can happen with people we know in person as well. People are so complicated. Thank you for writing this.
Thank you for sharing this. Without getting too wordy about all my own various thoughts and feelings on friendships, I’m just going to say that the first thing I did when I was done reading was text a close friend I hadn’t texted since July 1st. Making, and maintaining, adult friendships is super hard! I can’t even imagine how the experience you had adds an extra complicated layer to that.
Another quote from Jia’s review: “And there it is again: the new revelation, the better life arriving once more… each woman, no matter what, is always stepping into her truth and power—she will also be stepping into her truth and power three years from now, when she promotes her next thing, and she will certainly be stepping into her truth and power five years after that. Every time, the person you’re seeing will really, finally be her.”
I’m reading Gilbert’s memoir because her writing is usually stunning and from a psychological POV, I’m intrigued. I read Glennon’s work for the writing, too. But I have problems with the packaging and marketing of stories like this, when 3 years later, they’ve found a new “truth” to follow and peddle to the readers. (I know that’s not the point of this Substack, but I really liked the review you linked and had thoughts!)
So much of my 30's and 40's have brought tremendous shifts in friendships. I feel much more fearful now about letting people in, and also just unwilling to go back to who I once was in friendships. It certainly feels like it makes it harder to make friends, or maintain committed mutual friendships, but it feels more honest. I always appreciate your willingness to talk about subjects where your thoughts aren't fully formed or coming from a place of absolute certainty, Lore. That too feels more honest.
Thank you! I enjoyed this entry as well! I’m an introvert by temperament. I’ve usually been slow to bring people into my close confidence. Yes, it’s a fear of getting hurt. It’s also a fear of not being emotionally and/or physically available to so many people.
It’s the mutual sense of caring, vulnerability, accountability, humor, etc that keeps me close to a small circle of friends.
Thank you for sharing your vulnerability and wisdom.
I was listening to one of Kendra Adachi's latest podcasts and she talked about things she'd learned over the last years of being in the public eye. One of those things was that the people closest to her are not impressed by her. I thought that was such a great piece of insight. To have a husband, friends, family, who read what you write, but see the other side of it and won't pretend that you're better than you are because they know all the times you were mean while you worked out words in your head to post on the Internet -- it's a blessing. I am glad that there are people I see every day who read my newsletter (or sometimes don't) and don't really care about it.
I get antsy, I want to be good. And, recently, after a glorious summer off the Internet I've been all scroll-y again, ugh. .Which is to say, I am newly aware that all of this "being on the Internet" is just this tiny little sliver of my real life, and that sometimes when I'm most active here, I'm being the worst version of myself at home with the people who actually love me.
I take close notes of the writers and creators who maintain a level of personal integrity in their work -- who don't ever make me feel like they're selling. I want to be that sort of person, but like you say, there's always that fear that you're not going to measure up to what someone wants you to be. I wonder if this is especially true for those who've been through some form of narcissistic abuse, because the dynamic of perform for consumption is so hardwired into the system already...
Anyway. Thanks for sharing this.
Very courageous of you to share this.
I read once that friendship break ups can be as painful as a divorce for some situations and that’s stayed with me. I’m so sorry you went through this. I find very few of us make it to our 40s without being gutted by at least one friend. I’ve also read that it’s harder to make friends once you are in yours 40s but I’m trying to buck that trend by continuing to open myself up to new people. It’s a process! But I’m thankful for the friendships I’ve made even while still processing and healing from past terrible experiences. ❤️
I have been through friendship breakups, but the situation I mentioned I wouldn't consider one of them. I don't think I ever really considered us friends. They did though, but mostly because they'd created a whole relationship in their head that didn't exist. They felt like they knew me and I didn't know them really at all. There was no chance for a friendship to develop because it was so non-neutral to begin with. It just went downhill from there.
Friendship breakups, though, man, those are HARD. I've never been divorced but there has been one friendship breakup that has dominated my life over the past several years that is seriously one of the most painful experiences of my life.
Someone was just telling me that it's harder to make friends once you're in your forties and I'm wondering why that is. I would think that as we know ourselves better, making friends would be easier? Or maybe it's just that we know ourselves so well, we're cutting off the potential for new friendships before they can blossom? I don't know. I'd be interested in thinking more about that =)
That makes a lot of sense. And hard in its own unique way. I do not have the readership you have, but I still have met people who feel like they know me because they've read what I write. And that alone is a little tricky to navigate. But when you add OTHER unhealthy behavior in...well, that gets crazy quick.
Somewhat related, I was thinking about how one aspect I sort of liked in the business world is that people are more upfront about their networking behavior. Everyone in the room knows that they are trying to make connections for mutually beneficial reasons, and it's a business relationship in the end. In the ministry and in the writing world, I feel like that can be hidden underneath layers of friendship overtures that really have an agenda underneath the surface. That ends up making poor friendships and even poorer networks in the long term.
An article I read ages ago about the difficulties of making friends in your 40s mentioned how people earlier in life make friends in high school and college, but those sort of living life together connections end up dying away the older you get. I don't know if that's the only factor, though, maybe one of them. I really like your thought about how maybe in knowing ourselves so well, we are too quick to cut off new relationships. I can see truth there. On the personal side, I feel like I value my peace more the older I get, and the less I like drama, and people tend to bring drama, so that can create walls that I have to overcome.
Friendship has been thorny for me as well, though for different reasons. I really like how you described a true friend as one you can be exactly human-sized around! May we all aspire to be that friend!
Human-sized has been a theme in my life the past few years. No more worm-sized or celebrity-sized. Just normal sized, human.
really resonate with even just the title of this piece. friendship is worthy work, but hard. i have recently reflected on how clicking with someone and easily finding the connection that sends our souls soaring doesn’t mean that the relationship won’t still require effort on both our parts. and just because i experienced that click with someone at a certain season of my life doesn’t mean that the friendship will endure in the same way throughout subsequent seasons of life and becoming.
Yes. The seasonality of friendship is so difficult, something it can take a lifetime to come to terms with.
I love you, Lore. Also, that Jia T piece! Can't stop thinking about it.
Right?! I want to talk about it with you =)
I’ve been there too. You’ve given us so much in this post, and I got sidetracked by reading the article in the New Yorker too, so I may be spending the rest of my day thinking about what you wrote, and watching the videos, and reading other articles. I do need to get on with my own work though, so in parting, I’ll just say, hang on to those good friends, the four you mentioned. You are so fortunate to have them, I’m hoping that they are the friends that define friendship and are there indefinitely despite the flaws each of you may have that make friendship prickly at times. It is so important to not let friendships consume you, I know that for sure, but have true friends is life giving.
THank you. My true friends are so life-giving. I feel so incredibly rich in them.
Been there, oh, man. I have too many thoughts for a comment box but thank you for writing this!
I'm sorry you've been there. I think many of us have. I hate it for you.
Oops I meant to reply to this but I think I put it in the wrong place. Copying again here and sorry if redundant:
Gah Jia is good. I need to read that piece. I tend think of this social style as a two step con: first selling anxiety and then selling the “cure”. So so much of social media is now basically a version of inner/wellness QVC- telling people what to fear and then how we can pay them to fill that fear.
Well. I appreciate that isn’t your jam. I’m sorry this happened to you. I’ve been reading your work for QUITE awhile- since 2008 or 09? I think it must be normal, after we’ve learned and grown, to be critical of our past selves. But they were wise enough, too, to have gotten us to where we are. Your work has always been from a place of working towards a fundamental of Christ. Even if you weren’t feeling it or feel like you were living from that inner place of grace and freedom, I think you have been working towards/working it out in your work. FWIW.
I’m a cradle and current Episcopalian who has never much wrestled with many of the things you’ve been turning over the past decade. Did you know you’ve had such a “””liberal””” follower for so long- almost 20y!? (I know you’re curious about the way people who read your work identify. I like to think I’m unique- I’m not a liberal come lately to your voice :-) and my liberal bonafides are solid- My first vote for president in 2000 was for A* G****. I’ve been obsessed w and self declared kindred spirits w Madeleine L’Engle since age 11 and have always agreed w her that we are too obsessed w people’s gen:t@ls and not enough focused on our hearts. Which is to say I appreciate and find interesting your affirming series, and your conclusions echo something I agree with but never really struggled towards.)
But I’ve been at least small e evangelical friendly and have dabbled (campus crusade in college, relatively more conservative churches in my 20s tho never really crazy….) They’re just never “holy mystery” enough :-).
Actually… for a bunch of the more fundamental big E evangelical churches/preachers/styles, you might say they are “some of the most chaotic and emotionally lawless people” preaching about “having achieved inner piece” (h/t Jia). Anyway. Not much of a point here. Just a longtime reader perspective (and I do realize the irony of choosing this post about creepy followers to make my first and entirely too long comment )
Carolyn! Thank you for letting me know you've been here so long. That means a lot to me =) Thank you! You're not a creepy follower, I mean, you're not stalking me ;)
Adult friendships have been one of the toughest things to navigate. I had a friendship breakup last year that was truly devastating, and it has made it incredibly hard to trust new people. I really identified with what you said about the “click” of a just-right friendship. I’ve experienced it, so I know it happens, just not lately for me. Thanks for being vulnerable. There are always others who are in the same boat.
I am so sorry, Autumn. I've had a few of those and they compound the pain I described in this piece.