I have had similar experiences--both the good and the hard...you share so beautifully here, Lore. So glad you have such a sweet and trusted community. So glad you're writing a novel. And so glad I got some face-to-face time with you last month. You're a gift.
ahhh yeah it's so strange and fraught, and the lines between actual friend and colleague can be so blurry. I wonder if it's extra challenging for writers because the work is already so dang vulnerable.
(also: a novel!!! I hope you are having so much fun with it! 🎉)
Lore, you say the things that are hard to say with such grace and truth. How you described writer friendships is how I was taught to build relationships on Facebook. It was told to our group of mommy writers that if we scratch a writers back, they’ll scratch ours. There’s a give and a take: a like for a like, a share for a share, a mention for a mention. It was no way to build relationship. It was always so disappointing. Especially when people didn’t come through. It built a community of jealousy and false compliments. I finally got out. I don’t have those expectations anymore. I never want to have those expectations anymore. I just wanna be friends with people— true and honest friendship that is not based on reciprocation, but just because I simply like a person. Thank you so much for writing this.🧡
Oh Mel, this makes my stomach hurt. People will never come through, not for that. I wouldn't. I won't. There's enough beauty to go around, and I want to share as much of it as possible, but not for reciprocity! That's just empty work. It will never, ever, ever satisfy.
I won’t anymore either. I don’t have any expectations of anyone and though I enjoy writing it’s not my passion or pursuit. I don’t even care about speaking like I did before, I just want friends—true friendship. And I have found that on here and it’s been so encouraging, but I’ve been intentional about taking the pressure off and not feeling like I have to do a set of things to support people‘s writing. I just love you all and support you all. 🧡 and I’ll be anybody’s friend who wants it without the expectation of reciprocity.
So good. So vulnerable. So thoughtful. All the things I’ve come to expect and appreciate from you. Thank you so much for sharing this. I’ve heard similar sentiments in the writer space, and have been treading cautiously in response. So appreciate you.
Nursing from a unicorn is the single best analogy I've ever heard for this and I am stuffing it away in my pocket to quote you on (with nothing less than full credit--auuuugh, I hate that you've had words stolen!!) as frequently as possible. Gold.
Now I really have to wonder how a failure among writers to wean from their idols, particularly within shared publishing stables of a certain religious stripe, has led to all kinds of stagnancy and poor writing and plagiarism over the last several decades... sigh. Imitating greatness is one thing, but I think the endless proliferation of Screwtape variations, for instance, is quite another.
Eek, that's was an off-the-cuff comment right as the idea hit me, so I promise no great development of thought or proper research investigation here! But, for instance, I think of the great proliferation of Christian marriage advice books that have dominated evangelical publishing for the past couple decades, most of them regurgitating the same terrible teaching and faulty premises of older books released by fellow authors within that niche (and often at the same or similar publishing houses), just packaged in a few pseudo-personalized vignettes crow-barred to mean whatever tired popular takeaway sells. How many Christian marriage gurus are long-time acolytes of Elisabeth Elliot? You know how the Canon Press stable all parrot DW's ideas, who in turn parrots his father Jim Wilson and Jay Adams, the father of nouthetic counseling. That's an extreme example of publishing nepotism and stagnancy, but the back-scratching among other legacy evangelical authors and speakers to the point of smearing and blocking authors like Sheila Gregoire, who challenges and refutes old establishment ideas, is pervasive and shameful. And then there was the slew of poorly written purity culture propaganda back in the 90s produced to ride the coattails of I Kissed Dating Goodbye.
And I have to wonder if, even when the original base idea is halfway decent, or even good, hangers-on can only reasonably be expected to achieve derivative works of the original. We know the qualitative difference between Harry Potter fanfiction (even excellent examples of it!) and Naomi Novik's dark academia series: both HP and the Scholomance books are house system dramas set in a modern fantasy world, but there is a clean break between the story Rowling set out to tell and Novik's narrative agenda. If Novik had deliberately set out to create nothing more than a tribute to HP out of semi-sycophantic love for the original--or, worse, if she had taken the best parts, dressed them in new clothes, and tried to pass them off as her own--she likely would not have secured a publishing contract.
And yet this sort of thing does happen, and I feel, from my limited perspective, that it happens a lot more in nonfiction Christian publishing than it does elsewhere. And I think this is because new writers are deliberately taught/told/trained to have the establishment's back, to support the legacy authors, to color inside the lines they've drawn. And that producing poor imitations of their work from a "fresh" angle is how we keep the corporate writerly missions work going. It's how we stay unified. It's how we "edify" one another.
I don't think all Christian writers do this; I think there are more and more, like yourself, who are working hard to do something different, so please don't take this as me ragging on you/everyone in the industry. It just occurred to me that this might be one knotty thread in the problem you're highlighting.
Thank you for sharing this, I need and desire this same thing. I am a devotional writer these days at my church, but have this deep desire to publish my three novels that have been workshopped forever. Part of what went on in that group was what you described. I am a writing loner right now and miss that interaction. I'm in multiple diverse B.Study groups, but they don't exactly get me and they certainly are vastly opposed to my political views and have hurt me over and over again. Does anyone out there think that maybe getting in a World Relief study group would be a good thing for me?
I'm glad you have these kinds of relationships in your life! They are rare, and hard-won. I know what kind of a gift they are because I have four other writer-friends who have become as close as is possible when we live all over the country! It's taken years of hard work to get this close to them, and I'm thankful we have all put in the effort.
A novel is exciting! Can’t wait to learn more about it :). Thank you for these very convicting and really poignant reminders on what love really is and how it requires showing up as our real selves.
Thank you =) I'm afraid it will be a long time until I'm ready to talk much about it =) But nearly 30k words in and it is feeling like a really good thing.
A novel!!! Hip hip hooray!!
I have had similar experiences--both the good and the hard...you share so beautifully here, Lore. So glad you have such a sweet and trusted community. So glad you're writing a novel. And so glad I got some face-to-face time with you last month. You're a gift.
I'm sorry you have, Kris. I know we've talked about them a bit and I hate it. And I'm so glad we got in person time too!
ahhh yeah it's so strange and fraught, and the lines between actual friend and colleague can be so blurry. I wonder if it's extra challenging for writers because the work is already so dang vulnerable.
(also: a novel!!! I hope you are having so much fun with it! 🎉)
It is a challenge, for sure.
The novel, on the other hand, is just pure joy to write!
my heart is so happy that you have these spaces where you can be you in all your you-ness🥰
Thank you, my real-life friend =) And thank you for early morning muffins =)
😘
Lore, you say the things that are hard to say with such grace and truth. How you described writer friendships is how I was taught to build relationships on Facebook. It was told to our group of mommy writers that if we scratch a writers back, they’ll scratch ours. There’s a give and a take: a like for a like, a share for a share, a mention for a mention. It was no way to build relationship. It was always so disappointing. Especially when people didn’t come through. It built a community of jealousy and false compliments. I finally got out. I don’t have those expectations anymore. I never want to have those expectations anymore. I just wanna be friends with people— true and honest friendship that is not based on reciprocation, but just because I simply like a person. Thank you so much for writing this.🧡
Oh Mel, this makes my stomach hurt. People will never come through, not for that. I wouldn't. I won't. There's enough beauty to go around, and I want to share as much of it as possible, but not for reciprocity! That's just empty work. It will never, ever, ever satisfy.
I won’t anymore either. I don’t have any expectations of anyone and though I enjoy writing it’s not my passion or pursuit. I don’t even care about speaking like I did before, I just want friends—true friendship. And I have found that on here and it’s been so encouraging, but I’ve been intentional about taking the pressure off and not feeling like I have to do a set of things to support people‘s writing. I just love you all and support you all. 🧡 and I’ll be anybody’s friend who wants it without the expectation of reciprocity.
So good. So vulnerable. So thoughtful. All the things I’ve come to expect and appreciate from you. Thank you so much for sharing this. I’ve heard similar sentiments in the writer space, and have been treading cautiously in response. So appreciate you.
Thank you, Brian. Same to you, for real.
I love your commitment to gracious honesty🙏
This is just lovely and authentic and wise
Nursing from a unicorn is the single best analogy I've ever heard for this and I am stuffing it away in my pocket to quote you on (with nothing less than full credit--auuuugh, I hate that you've had words stolen!!) as frequently as possible. Gold.
Now I really have to wonder how a failure among writers to wean from their idols, particularly within shared publishing stables of a certain religious stripe, has led to all kinds of stagnancy and poor writing and plagiarism over the last several decades... sigh. Imitating greatness is one thing, but I think the endless proliferation of Screwtape variations, for instance, is quite another.
Can you say more about this failure among writers to wean from their idols? I'm interested in hearing more of your thoughts here =)
Eek, that's was an off-the-cuff comment right as the idea hit me, so I promise no great development of thought or proper research investigation here! But, for instance, I think of the great proliferation of Christian marriage advice books that have dominated evangelical publishing for the past couple decades, most of them regurgitating the same terrible teaching and faulty premises of older books released by fellow authors within that niche (and often at the same or similar publishing houses), just packaged in a few pseudo-personalized vignettes crow-barred to mean whatever tired popular takeaway sells. How many Christian marriage gurus are long-time acolytes of Elisabeth Elliot? You know how the Canon Press stable all parrot DW's ideas, who in turn parrots his father Jim Wilson and Jay Adams, the father of nouthetic counseling. That's an extreme example of publishing nepotism and stagnancy, but the back-scratching among other legacy evangelical authors and speakers to the point of smearing and blocking authors like Sheila Gregoire, who challenges and refutes old establishment ideas, is pervasive and shameful. And then there was the slew of poorly written purity culture propaganda back in the 90s produced to ride the coattails of I Kissed Dating Goodbye.
And I have to wonder if, even when the original base idea is halfway decent, or even good, hangers-on can only reasonably be expected to achieve derivative works of the original. We know the qualitative difference between Harry Potter fanfiction (even excellent examples of it!) and Naomi Novik's dark academia series: both HP and the Scholomance books are house system dramas set in a modern fantasy world, but there is a clean break between the story Rowling set out to tell and Novik's narrative agenda. If Novik had deliberately set out to create nothing more than a tribute to HP out of semi-sycophantic love for the original--or, worse, if she had taken the best parts, dressed them in new clothes, and tried to pass them off as her own--she likely would not have secured a publishing contract.
And yet this sort of thing does happen, and I feel, from my limited perspective, that it happens a lot more in nonfiction Christian publishing than it does elsewhere. And I think this is because new writers are deliberately taught/told/trained to have the establishment's back, to support the legacy authors, to color inside the lines they've drawn. And that producing poor imitations of their work from a "fresh" angle is how we keep the corporate writerly missions work going. It's how we stay unified. It's how we "edify" one another.
I don't think all Christian writers do this; I think there are more and more, like yourself, who are working hard to do something different, so please don't take this as me ragging on you/everyone in the industry. It just occurred to me that this might be one knotty thread in the problem you're highlighting.
Thank you for sharing this, I need and desire this same thing. I am a devotional writer these days at my church, but have this deep desire to publish my three novels that have been workshopped forever. Part of what went on in that group was what you described. I am a writing loner right now and miss that interaction. I'm in multiple diverse B.Study groups, but they don't exactly get me and they certainly are vastly opposed to my political views and have hurt me over and over again. Does anyone out there think that maybe getting in a World Relief study group would be a good thing for me?
not all unicorns are male....Phoebe and her unicorn, Marigold Heavenly Nostrils, are both female. In the interest of informational background!
I would also like to nominate the eponymous Last Unicorn (aka Lady Amalthea) from the weird yet beloved* Peter S. Beagle novel. 😄
* beloved by me anyway lol
My kids LOVE these comics. <3
Good to know! I should work on my unicorn knowledge ;)
Oh a novel! Bravo!!
It is the most fun I have ever had on a writing project. I hope it goes somewhere =)
I'm glad you have these kinds of relationships in your life! They are rare, and hard-won. I know what kind of a gift they are because I have four other writer-friends who have become as close as is possible when we live all over the country! It's taken years of hard work to get this close to them, and I'm thankful we have all put in the effort.
Thank you! They are rare and hard-won.
A novel is exciting! Can’t wait to learn more about it :). Thank you for these very convicting and really poignant reminders on what love really is and how it requires showing up as our real selves.
Thank you =) I'm afraid it will be a long time until I'm ready to talk much about it =) But nearly 30k words in and it is feeling like a really good thing.