Thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into this series, Lore. It’s so important, and I always appreciate your thoughtfulness and commitment to integrity. Grateful to be in that 65% ❤️
Thanks for this series. These posts helped me think through things from a different perspective.
Your post on "affirming" inadvertently helped prep me for a conversation I had the next day where I was asked about my opinion about being affirming. It ended up being a good conversation about definitions and how the term needs to not merely mean "I support same-sex marriage."
Like some of the other commenters, I was expecting more into-the-weeds theology, but I am pleasantly surprised at the route this series took, the approach you have to these topics, and how uncontroversial I found the series to be. The most controversial bit was definitely the changeability of God, and I let my thoughts be known in my comments on that post :)
Small aside, the "clarity is kindness" is 100% true at a larger level -- I work part-time at a church and this is one of those topics where it's good to be upfront with newcomers as to how they can expect our church to handle the topic of sexuality. As a queer person, I'd *hate* for another queer person to hit a point with my church where the tables turn and there is unexpected confusion. That said, having such "statements" can tend to shut down needed in-person conversations, which is really too bad.
Thanks again for your willingness to take the time and energy to do this series. I know it took a toll on you, so I hope you can rest and enjoy the beauty of autumn!
Thank you for writing this series! I’ve shared more in the comments and in emails to you than I sually do with strangers. Somehow though, it felt pleasantly intimate. Thank you again.
What exactly do you mean by "I believe that God is always changing, growing wider, bigger, and more full of goodness, billowing out exponentially and eternally."
The reason I ask is because of the doctrine of impassibility, which rejects the notion that God is capable of changing. Not to mention the many, many problems that arise when we claim that God changes. This is a common belief in Islam, but not a Christian one.
I'm all for saying things that are unsayable, but rejecting Christian orthodoxy in the name of what we would like to think about God is dangerous ground. It doesn't really matter what I believe about God if it is based on my own introspection. What God says about Himself, however, is of much more importance.
Hi Cameron, I've explored it more thoroughly in the post I linked to =) There is also biblical support for God changing God's mind throughout scripture.
I understand the seemingly apparent texts in the Bible that seem like God changes His mind. However, traditional Christian theology would never claim that it is capable for God to change in Himself. Things may change around Him, but to say that God Himself changes, or grows, is really just open theism. Along with the 35 or so texts that say something along the lines of God "repented" are many, many more texts that claim God will by no means repent.
We have to have a category for analogical language in the Bible. God's aseity and His immutability are essential to who He is. God's repenting is not like human repenting. It is dangerous ground when we start thinking of God differently than classic, historic Christianity does.
I'm aware that, in our age, new is best. Yet that is, in my opinion, one of the most tragic failures of this generation. When our "Christian" theology agrees more with open theism and pantheism than it does with the church fathers, the medieval church, and the reformers, it must be worth considering whether or not it is biblical.
I don't say any of this to spread hate, as that is genuinely not my desire. I truly enjoy reading your posts. I just fear for your large audience, many of whom are probably not theologically trained, and the implications of suggesting that God changes.
I think I actually was expecting more of a deeper dive into certain subjects, but honestly, I really appreciated your take on everything. It forced me to pause and think. To reconsider and ask more questions. To give more grace, to grow in more humility. To consider that God is always changing is new to me! And I also appreciate how you said it’s not always best to share everything. I am a transparent person, but over the past 6 years my faith has become more personal, more quiet. Not so out loud. Haven’t been in a comfortable place in my faith in a long while. I suppose that is good. But I truly do appreciate you and work. Thank you, Lore!
That's a fair expectation, but thank you for being okay to just let it be what it was. I have LOTS of thoughts on all the different certain subjects, but I find those thoughts to be better expressed in in-person conversations =)
This series has changed me. It has brought up fundamental questions about faith that I didn't know I needed to consider. Every week in therapy we spend some time breaking down something you've written in this series, and once again this week I find myself saving a line or two to approach in my next session. Thank you for your work; thank you for your carefully boundaried honesty; thank you for modeling the kind of careful thought I aspire to.
The question I have most resonated with is whether God can change. I would love to learn (from whoever: Lore, other readers, your very intelligent and well-read poodle) of some resources that can facilitate my exploration of this idea a little more. Googling seems like it'll be overwhelming and I need a little curation.
Katie, thank you for sharing that. I LOVE that you are talking about these "fundamental questions" with your therapist. That is exactly my hope, that anything I might write here would merely spur you on to think and process in your own life with the people who know and love you best.
On God changing/changing God's mind, my recommendations for where to read/think/learn more were footnoted in the post =)
In honesty, it takes great courage to grow into the greater humility of change of beliefs once thought to be foundational. To listen for understanding, to be uncomfortably stretched and willing to stay present is our journey to grow into greater wholeness and Christ-likeness.
Thank you for your courage to do this privately and to share this with us. Everyone of us has a different journey and deserves respect as human beings made in His image. And, I believe that we can trust the Holy Spirit’s work in each one. We are commanded to love God and our neighbors as ourselves. Love not condemn, or try to change to our image, beliefs, or culture. Thank you Lore, blessings on you both.
“These views are not the most important thing about me, nor are they the most important things about anyone.” Flesh and money spent on it are not reflections of the character of God, only of man. Thank you for pointing this out. God made every one of us before we hit the sin-filled earth. Sin has affected each of us differently in one’s struggle to reach back out to Him. How can we judge flesh when we are all flawed? Love and uplift, that is what He asks of us. Thank you for your brave journey here. It matters.
Thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into this series, Lore. It’s so important, and I always appreciate your thoughtfulness and commitment to integrity. Grateful to be in that 65% ❤️
65%er here! 🙋🏼♀️
Thanks for this series. These posts helped me think through things from a different perspective.
Your post on "affirming" inadvertently helped prep me for a conversation I had the next day where I was asked about my opinion about being affirming. It ended up being a good conversation about definitions and how the term needs to not merely mean "I support same-sex marriage."
Like some of the other commenters, I was expecting more into-the-weeds theology, but I am pleasantly surprised at the route this series took, the approach you have to these topics, and how uncontroversial I found the series to be. The most controversial bit was definitely the changeability of God, and I let my thoughts be known in my comments on that post :)
Small aside, the "clarity is kindness" is 100% true at a larger level -- I work part-time at a church and this is one of those topics where it's good to be upfront with newcomers as to how they can expect our church to handle the topic of sexuality. As a queer person, I'd *hate* for another queer person to hit a point with my church where the tables turn and there is unexpected confusion. That said, having such "statements" can tend to shut down needed in-person conversations, which is really too bad.
Thanks again for your willingness to take the time and energy to do this series. I know it took a toll on you, so I hope you can rest and enjoy the beauty of autumn!
Thank you for writing this series! I’ve shared more in the comments and in emails to you than I sually do with strangers. Somehow though, it felt pleasantly intimate. Thank you again.
I am here. You are here. We are here. ❤️
What exactly do you mean by "I believe that God is always changing, growing wider, bigger, and more full of goodness, billowing out exponentially and eternally."
The reason I ask is because of the doctrine of impassibility, which rejects the notion that God is capable of changing. Not to mention the many, many problems that arise when we claim that God changes. This is a common belief in Islam, but not a Christian one.
I'm all for saying things that are unsayable, but rejecting Christian orthodoxy in the name of what we would like to think about God is dangerous ground. It doesn't really matter what I believe about God if it is based on my own introspection. What God says about Himself, however, is of much more importance.
Hi Cameron, I've explored it more thoroughly in the post I linked to =) There is also biblical support for God changing God's mind throughout scripture.
Lore,
I understand the seemingly apparent texts in the Bible that seem like God changes His mind. However, traditional Christian theology would never claim that it is capable for God to change in Himself. Things may change around Him, but to say that God Himself changes, or grows, is really just open theism. Along with the 35 or so texts that say something along the lines of God "repented" are many, many more texts that claim God will by no means repent.
We have to have a category for analogical language in the Bible. God's aseity and His immutability are essential to who He is. God's repenting is not like human repenting. It is dangerous ground when we start thinking of God differently than classic, historic Christianity does.
I'm aware that, in our age, new is best. Yet that is, in my opinion, one of the most tragic failures of this generation. When our "Christian" theology agrees more with open theism and pantheism than it does with the church fathers, the medieval church, and the reformers, it must be worth considering whether or not it is biblical.
I don't say any of this to spread hate, as that is genuinely not my desire. I truly enjoy reading your posts. I just fear for your large audience, many of whom are probably not theologically trained, and the implications of suggesting that God changes.
Love you beautiful. Thanks for sharing this series. ❤️😊
Thanks for all that you have done and did to help me share it =)
I think I actually was expecting more of a deeper dive into certain subjects, but honestly, I really appreciated your take on everything. It forced me to pause and think. To reconsider and ask more questions. To give more grace, to grow in more humility. To consider that God is always changing is new to me! And I also appreciate how you said it’s not always best to share everything. I am a transparent person, but over the past 6 years my faith has become more personal, more quiet. Not so out loud. Haven’t been in a comfortable place in my faith in a long while. I suppose that is good. But I truly do appreciate you and work. Thank you, Lore!
That's a fair expectation, but thank you for being okay to just let it be what it was. I have LOTS of thoughts on all the different certain subjects, but I find those thoughts to be better expressed in in-person conversations =)
This series has changed me. It has brought up fundamental questions about faith that I didn't know I needed to consider. Every week in therapy we spend some time breaking down something you've written in this series, and once again this week I find myself saving a line or two to approach in my next session. Thank you for your work; thank you for your carefully boundaried honesty; thank you for modeling the kind of careful thought I aspire to.
The question I have most resonated with is whether God can change. I would love to learn (from whoever: Lore, other readers, your very intelligent and well-read poodle) of some resources that can facilitate my exploration of this idea a little more. Googling seems like it'll be overwhelming and I need a little curation.
Katie, thank you for sharing that. I LOVE that you are talking about these "fundamental questions" with your therapist. That is exactly my hope, that anything I might write here would merely spur you on to think and process in your own life with the people who know and love you best.
On God changing/changing God's mind, my recommendations for where to read/think/learn more were footnoted in the post =)
In honesty, it takes great courage to grow into the greater humility of change of beliefs once thought to be foundational. To listen for understanding, to be uncomfortably stretched and willing to stay present is our journey to grow into greater wholeness and Christ-likeness.
Thank you for your courage to do this privately and to share this with us. Everyone of us has a different journey and deserves respect as human beings made in His image. And, I believe that we can trust the Holy Spirit’s work in each one. We are commanded to love God and our neighbors as ourselves. Love not condemn, or try to change to our image, beliefs, or culture. Thank you Lore, blessings on you both.
Thank you, Valerie. I appreciate your words.
“These views are not the most important thing about me, nor are they the most important things about anyone.” Flesh and money spent on it are not reflections of the character of God, only of man. Thank you for pointing this out. God made every one of us before we hit the sin-filled earth. Sin has affected each of us differently in one’s struggle to reach back out to Him. How can we judge flesh when we are all flawed? Love and uplift, that is what He asks of us. Thank you for your brave journey here. It matters.
🧡
Your words remind me of Pádraig O' Tuama's in his book In the Shelter. One of my faves. Welcome to Here.
One of my favorites too =)